The Atheist Movement Becomes The Atheist Circus

The atheist activists are at each other’s throats again.  Shockingly, it involves another one of their conferences – the Mythicist Milwaukee conference.  If you have never heard of this conference before, it’s safe to say you are not alone.  It sounds like another one of those atheist meet-ups  that’s about one step above a Furry convention, yet two steps below a Trekkie convention.

Anyway, the Mythicist Milwaukee invited Sargon of Akkad, Armoured Skeptic, and ShoeOnHead to speak and I guess these atheists have a reputation of being anti-SJW.  Well, as we all know, social justice atheists tend to freak out and get hysterical when people who are not “woke” are actually allowed to speak.  So PZ Myers, the Happy Atheist, began to launch attacks on the Mythicist Milwaukee conference, accusing them of hypocrisy and sexism.

Well, one thing led to another, and next thing y’know,  activist Steve Shives  renounced all friendship with activist Seth Andrews (the Thnking Atheist) because Andrews refused not to attend.  Hemant Mehta, The Friendly Atheist, is MIA.  So along comes atheist activist Richard Carrier, well known for championing crackpot myther notions and getting a divorce to fulfill his polyamorous identity (not to mention he is still suing PZ Myers).  Carrier tries to rise above it all and decides to go after activist Dan Arel, the atheist who advocates the use of violence:

Those other folks, like Dan Arel, who promote physical assault against Nazis, are also, BTW, calling Sargon a Nazi. 1+1 gets dangerously close to 2 there. And close enough indeed. As noted in that same thread by a sponsor of the con, someone has already been threatening to photograph and “out” anyone who attends the conference (and implying they’ll try to get them fired from their jobs). So now atheists are being threatened with being outed and fired. By the left. Thanks, Dan. That’s the kind of world you are creating. …..Dan Arel is all but saying someone should physically assault Sargon at the conference. And inspiring his own flying monkeys to spy on and “out” atheist attendees and try to fuck with their lives for going.

Carrier’s blog got a reply from one person, probably because you have to pay to post comments on his blog.  But Arel, Champion of the Oppressed, must have got wind of it.  And I’ll have to admit, he takes out Carrier with one blow:

One of these days I am going to have to make a Atheist Activist Scorecard.  When these wingnuts start flinging feces at each other, it’s hard to keep track of who is who.

The moral of the story?  If only you religious kooks would abandon your religion, you too could follow the Light of Reason and be part of the next showing of the Atheist Circus.

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18 Responses to The Atheist Movement Becomes The Atheist Circus

  1. Mechanar says:

    quite alot of infighting for a movment that only lacks bellief in god. Oh well i am going to prepare popcorn for the next round, let the games begin!

  2. Tim Lambert says:

    Drats! I live in Milwaukee and I missed this?! That society would put up these little posters with a Batman emblem over a cross with the words “Batman & Jesus”… I could only imagine their profound insights they conjure in the documentary.

  3. Frank Richter says:

    The CON hasn’t even happened … it’s on 9/30/17

  4. stcordova says:

    “The CON hasn’t even happened … it’s on 9/30/17”

    Yep, and it’s already causing a stir.

    Ok, Tim Lambert, here’s your chance to go to the conference and give us a first hand account. 🙂

    Just kidding. The fireworks are usually in the blogsphere. I’ve not heard much of any instance where new atheists have had the guts to confront each other in person. So I expect the conference to be rather tame.

    These guys usually choose the safer route of just flaming each other in cyberspace. I wouldn’t waste my money on the conference when you can get all the free entertainment on the internet that will likely ensue from the conference.

  5. Dhay says:

    In that 17 September 2017 blog post entitled “The Left and Anti-Left Both Have Much Still to Learn”, Richard Carrier goes to town on just how unsavoury Sargon of Akkad is; but first he points out how popular Sargon of Akkad is, the near-million subscribers to his YouTube channel, the even larger number of regular viewers:

    He is massively popular in the atheist movement.

    … his own YouTube channel has nearly a million subscribers (not just viewers, subscribers; his viewers, consistently exceed a million).

    He is already massively popular. In the atheism movement.

    Sargon is not some fringe person no one knows about and only a few dregs listen to …

    … the stupidity and ignorance he is spreading to millions of viewers. Millions of fellow atheists.

    [Emphases original. Carrier’s posts are very long, so I’ll direct you to look for the section headed “Check Your Emotion and Think for a Minute.”]

    And in case you missed that:
    “massively popular”,
    nearly a million subscribers (not just viewers, subscribers; his viewers, consistently exceed a million”,
    “already massively popular in the atheism movement”,
    “the stupidity and ignorance he is spreading to millions of … fellow atheists.”
    — in case you missed it, Carrier later adds:

    And he has an audience of millions.

    To summarise, Sargon of Akkad is “massively” popular, popular with “millions” of fellow atheists.

    Just how unsavoury is Sargon of Akkad?:

    When Sargon argued feminism is responsible for Elliot Rodger’s murder spree (and he did), because feminism “disenfranchised” Rodger by somehow programming women to not like him or have sex with him (yep, that’s what he said), Sargon has literally become a murder apologist. … He’s defending murder, by blaming it on women not giving it up to a guy whom (we can now confidently say in hindsight) they obviously correctly read as a sociopath.

    Ah yes, that nasty game of ‘blame the victim’. I once was acquainted with a man who (according to his children) thought the Dunblane murderer was fully justified in killing all those children because the parents had no right denying him access to them in a scoutmaster role. Evil man.

    What does it say about those “millions of fellow atheists” that they lap this sort of shit up.

    But it doesn’t end there, says Carrier:

    … that’s just one of a hundred horrifying things Sargon has said.

    You’ll find countless examples, including rape apologetics, racism, misogynistic insults, mockery of the disabled, mockery of victims of abuse and harassment, and endless things suggestive of a scary heartless motherfucker.

    What does it say about those “millions of fellow atheists” that they lap this sort of shit up.

    To which Carrier appends:

    And hundreds of thousands of atheists are his fans.
    [Emphasis original]

    I’d say there’s evidently an awful lot of very scary internet atheists out there.

  6. TFBW says:

    I subscribe to Sargon of Akkad’s YouTube channel at the moment. Having seen a substantial amount of Sargon’s output, and Carrier’s description of it as quoted above, I have formed the opinion that Carrier is a mendacious activist with an axe to grind, and I wouldn’t trust him to tell me the time of day. I’m pretty sure I formed the same opinion last time I encountered anything Carrier said. Still, it’s interesting to know that Carrier considers so many “fellow atheists” to be morally bankrupt in this way.

  7. Dhay says:

    That’s a useful response, concerning as it does both that specific post of Richard Carrier’s and, because reflecting on character, the contents of Carrier’s posts and books in general.

  8. Isaac says:

    No wonder nobody likes atheists. There’s like millions of them all over the world, but only one Friendly one, only one Thinking one, and only one Happy one. And only one of them is Amazing.

  9. TFBW says:

    I’ve had a slightly closer look at the original Carrier source material in relation to his comments on Sargon of Akkad, and I note that Carrier demonstrates his alignment by citing entirely leftist and/or feminist sources in his references to Sargon. This is merely illustrative of the current divide in what used to be New Atheism. The Social Justice faction which branched off as Atheism+ are notorious ideological purists with absolutely no sense of humour. Demonisation is simply part of their standard operating procedure: you can expect them to paint all their ideological opponents in the worst possible light, possibly even more viciously if those opponents are “supposed to” side with them by dint of being atheists, or black, or gay, or female, or whatever.

  10. Dhay says:

    TFBW > The Social Justice faction which branched off as Atheism+ are notorious ideological purists with absolutely no sense of humour.

    In his 30 September 2017 blog post entitled “Mythcon was, as expected, crapola”, PZ Myers tells us:

    … This was a theater packed with giggling misogynists.

    Remember that next time Mythicist Milwaukee puts on a conference — it will be only for the dregs of atheism.

    (It’s not clear that Myers was present, he might be going from reports by others, or from viewing one-minute stretches of recorded phone video.)


    I also saw a small bit of the “Armoured Skeptic”. He stood on the stage reading from a handful of papers, and made absurd declarations, such as that adding social justice to atheism made it a religion, that there was a god of SJWs, etc., etc., etc.

    Wow, the Atheism+ and Atheism– guys are really into mutual hatred.

  11. TFBW says:

    The anti-SJW “sceptic community” represented at Mythcon already has a mock religion of their own (which, frankly, makes a refreshing change from the likes of pastafarianism). They’ve adopted the Egyptian god Kek as their deity, partly because he’s depicted with a frog head, and they like the similarities to Pepe the Frog, but also because Kek is associated with chaos. I don’t guarantee that they’re all on board with it, but I’d wager that most of them are “ethnic Kekistanis”.

    I might suggest that the SJW “Atheism+” community do likewise, but I reckon they take themselves far too seriously to do it unless some alpha feminist declares that it must be so. I lean towards the adoption of the Greek goddess Dike in their case, because she is female and represents “justice and the spirit of moral order and fair judgement based on immemorial custom, in the sense of socially enforced norms and conventional rules.” Elide the “immemorial” part, and you have a rather neat fit, I think. She is related to but distinct from Themis, who represents divine justice.

  12. TFBW says:

    @Dhay: “Wow, the Atheism+ and Atheism– guys are really into mutual hatred.”

    True, but I think you have no idea how much the Atheism+ folks hate the atheists which oppose them. Truly passionate hate needs to claim the moral high ground, because it’s OK to hate moral monsters, and they have a lot of hate to justify. There is some brief mention of Sargon being called a Nazi in the OP, but did you know that the A+ crowd called the venue hosting the conference and told them that the conference organisers had invited Nazis? Did you know that this resulted in the venue demanding $3000 in additional expenses for security?

    I’d provide video links to back this up, but it’s all a bit potty-mouthed. Maybe later.

  13. Dhay says:

    PZ Myers has just joined the ranks of YouTube atheists, announcing this with a blog post entitled “Ooh, aargh, I made one of those YouTube talking head videos”:

    Yeah, I’m trying to reach YouTube atheists, so I guess that means I need to use their preferred medium, as unsuited as I am to it. So here I am, expressing my views about the awful people in my movement by staring uncomfortably into a camera.
    [Embedded 11 minute video entitled “MythCon and the amazingly skewed goals of the Sargoon brigades.”]

    Perhaps he’s angling to get invited to the New York convention next year, where ‘The Thinker’ & Co are trying to attract the YouTube generation:

    We want The Atheist Conference to be full of young atheists, motivated to atheist with a cause. That’s why we want to get the YouTube atheists on board. They bring the young atheists out. So we have our eyes set on prominent YouTube atheists for speakers, panel discussions, and perhaps, a debate.

    Prominent YouTube atheists like Sargon of Akkad, Armoured Skeptic, and ShoeOnHead? A MythCon look-alike?

    The Atheist Conference we’re doing in New York City is specifically about atheist unity and rebuilding our community so that together we’re stronger and more able to fight for what we stand for.

    Good luck with that. On present showing, they’ll need a lot of it.

  14. TFBW says:

    “The Thinker” (cited above) belongs to the not-uncommon school of thought which says, “an atheist is just someone who at the bare minimum lacks belief in any gods.” He also uses “atheist” as a verb when he says, “motivated to atheist with a cause.” Motivated to lack belief in gods for a cause? I doubt he meant to be so candid, but there it is: a call to motivated unbelief in the service of activism.

  15. Dhay says:

    > The atheist activists are at each other’s throats again. Shockingly, it involves another one of their conferences – the Mythicist Milwaukee conference.

    Areos has an article by Andy Ngo entitled “Chaos during Social Justice and Feminism Debate at Milwaukee Atheism Conference”. At the end it notes four speakers who didn’t squabble — evidently a minor success — but concludes:

    Lost in all this? An opportunity to close the gap between “atheism plus” and “atheism minus.”

    There’s a lot more detail on the altercations.

  16. Crude says:

    motivated to atheist with a cause

    Did they finally retire the ‘atheism is just a lack of belief’ line, or are they just being even more dishonest than normal?

    An opportunity to close the gap between “atheism plus” and “atheism minus.”

    Sure, there’s only one way they’ll do that: unconditional surrender of ‘everyone who isn’t in atheism+’.

    There is no way, no possible way, that atheism+ will say “Okay, we’ll sideline feminism, SJWism, and all of our pet causes to support atheist agitation, even against muslims.”

  17. TFBW says:


    Did they finally retire the ‘atheism is just a lack of belief’ line, or are they just being even more dishonest than normal?

    My quotation, above, which says exactly that, is less than 12 months old, so The Thinker is talking out both sides of his mouth on the issue as far as I’m concerned. I don’t think that this counts as “more dishonest than normal”, though. More like status quo.

    Sure, there’s only one way they’ll do that: unconditional surrender of ‘everyone who isn’t in atheism+’.

    Occasionally someone on the A+ side has a “red pill” moment where they see the cult for what it really is, but that’s so rare that I’d have to agree with you in practice. Part of the problem is the complete and total disconnect between the sides on the nature of the disagreement. The A- side objects to the A+ side on the grounds that their arguments are shoddy; the A+ side objects to the A- side on the grounds that their position is actively and maliciously causing harm to people, and they must be evil because they don’t seem to care (thus the ready use of the “Nazi” pejorative).

    Is there even a theoretical solution to such a disagreement? I don’t see it.

  18. Dhay says:

    I spotted this, linked from the American Atheists site:

    Atheist Alliance International has been running an Atheist Census project for the past several years. One of the striking results of this project has been the gross gender imbalance in participation (and, presumably, self-identification) that the project has consistently shown. AAI believes that this gender imbalance is a problem within the atheist movement and community that needs to be rectified. This report – a compilation of research on the causes of the imbalance, as well as possible solutions, was compiled as a response to this issue.

    While Atheist Alliance International does not believe that we can solve this problem on our own, we do believe that it is a significant and urgent issue that should be seriously addressed by movement and community leaders in order to strengthen the foundations of our community and forward our movement.

    This report was compiled in 2016 by AAI Board Members …

    [Click the broken square icon at bottom right to enlarge the image.]

    Page 4 of the report says that, worldwide, 73.2% of atheists are male. It’s nothing we haven’t known for years, of course, just look at the audiences at atheist conferences, but now the bias towards atheists being predominantly male is official and is “a problem within the atheist movement and community that needs to be rectified.”

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